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Talk:Jean-Luc Picard/archive
Great article! -- Cid Highwind 03:23, 4 Feb 2004 (PST) ---- Does anyone have a source for Picard being flight controller/conn officer on the Stargazer? I don't think this has ever been canonically revealed, so should be removed unless we can locate a reference... --Captain Mike K. Bartel 23:03, 20 Jul 2004 (CEST) Might want to tie in the chat he had with Data on Night Terrors where he says he watched his grandfather got nuts as a child. I'll leave working it in up to someone else. Tyrant 23:01, 25 Jan 2005 (CET)Tyrant First contact with Ferengi? I think that it was Jonathan Archer who made first contact with the Ferengie when they tried to steal everything of his ship. :A) That wasn't the Federation, B) He did not know they were Ferengi, never got a name. --OuroborosCobra talk 11:16, 13 October 2006 (UTC) Reliant reference The Reliant was mentioned in the script of "The Measure Of A Man" only, and not in the final episode. Perhaps a small note after the information stating it was from a cut scene would be appropriate? -- SmokeDetector47 21:55, 2005 Jan 29 (CET) :Was it cut? I didn't know that - I was just researching the script to rewrite the Judge Advocate General article when I came across the reference - haven't seen the ep itself for quite some time... -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 22:17, Jan 29, 2005 (CET) Casting Call I have added the original casting call in backround information. It is quoted from the TNG Companion. Needs Information On... The following currently lacks from the article: * information on "Romance" under "Personal relationships", including Lily Sloane, Jenice Manheim, Miranda Vigo, Anij, possibly also the Borg Queen; * information on interest in classic music and Shakespeare; * more detailed information on events from during TNG. Ottens 15:18, 28 May 2005 (UTC) ***Family could also be greatly expanded. Tyrant 18:39, 31 May 2005 (UTC)Tyrant Between Stargazer and Ent-D? Do we have any information on what Picard was doing during this period? If I recall in "All Good Things..." the scene where Picard takes command of the Ent-D has him reciting his orders; something like: "To Captain Jean-Luc Picard, you are hereby requested and required to..." was there a mention of his current posting in that order? "To Captain Jean-Luc Picard, commanding officer USS-shipname, you are hereby requested and required..." Or do we just not have any info? Logan 5 18:35, 31 May 2005 (UTC) :Additionally, the Legacy episode seems to indicate that he was commanding a different ship when he first met Tasha Yar but I'm not sure it's ever been mentioned by name. Seems a long period for him not to be in command, or maybe he was posted to a starbase or at Starfleet Headquarters? Do we have even a non-canon mention of this time period? Logan 5 17:10, 15 Sep 2005 (UTC) Relationship with Data * I wrote as much as I could remember on this sub-topic. Before anybody asks where I found the information on the conversation that Picard had with Data following Riker and Troi's wedding, it is mentioned in one of the deleted scenes on the Star Trek Nemesis DVD.--Scimitar 00:49, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC) "Engage!" I think it'd be neat to have a brief article devoted to this command. It was Picard's tagline, but we saw several other characters (Riker, LaForge, etc.) use the command while sitting in the captain's chair over the course of TNG. Was it a standard, recognized command throughout Starfleet at this time, or were they all simply emulating their captain? Was the command ever used by Kirk on TOS, or on DS9, Enterprise, etc.? Do the TNG DVDs include audio commentary -- and if so, did the actors or writers ever discuss where this term came from, whose idea it was, when it was decided to make a habit of it, etc.? I believe Captain Pike used "engage." Bloated Article For a brief period in 2375, Worf rejoined his old crew to reveal Admiral Dougherty's conspiracy concerning the Ba'ku relocation. In 2379, he attended the wedding ceremony of William Riker and Deanna Troi. En route to Betazed aboard the Enterprise, the crew was assigned to Romulus to begin peace negotiations with the new praetor of the Romulan Star Empire, Shinzon. The peace offer turned out to be a trap and in the end Worf, together with the Romulans, had to face Shinzon and the Remans. Finally, he admitted that the Romulans fought with honor, possibly getting over his life-long grudge against this species. :That's just one example of a problem that plagues this article: There's a lot of information that has only, charitably, a tangential relevance to Picard -- and plenty of information, like the above, that has no relationship to Picard whatsoever. This article needs a serious revision, heavy on deletion. Receding hairline There was a paragraph (cited to episodes "Tapestry", "Violations" and Star Trek Nemesis) which described the adolescent Picard having a receding hairline and receiving follicle restorations in his adult life -- i can't find any reference to such incidents in those three sources. If there is a source for these odd claims, i'd like it described in more detail. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 01:52, 5 Oct 2005 (UTC) *I admit it. There is no explicit dialog stating Picard had any kind of hair restoration at all. It just mysteriously fell out and suddenly grew back, only to fall out again. It is highly improbable that the subject will ever get mentioned in any film or TV show. It just isn't as big a mystery as the Klingons' foreheads. But, the explaination I offered is the least complicated and minimally speculative. Something happened to poor Jean-Luc's hair, and it's unlikely we'll ever get an explanation as what. Maybe that would be considred "fanon", it just seemed like the most probable way of clearing up an issue we'll never hear about again. **Hair tends to grow back after being shaved off, but perhaps this mightn't be obvious to everyone. basically, we have Boothby, "Tapestry" and "Violations" all confirming that Picard definitely did have hair until the 2350s. ST:Nemesis has a photo of hairless Picard, played by Tom Hardy while Hardy was also portraying the clone Shinzon, who had stubble visible on his head while playing Shinzon. I think it seems likely Picard shaved his head for some of his academy years. **''Offering'' any "minimal speculation" passed off as cited fact in an article body, rather than a background note, is rather unbecoming of Memory Alpha -- especially if it creates the false inference that you meant to claim it was cited to any of the sources listed -- that would be total disinformation, if that's what "fanon" refers to... -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 04:23, 5 Oct 2005 (UTC) ***The speculation left is even worse than mine;"Picard lost his hair by the 2350s, although he was known to have a shaved head for some time as a student at Starfleet Academy. (TNG: "Rascals", "Star Trek Nemesis", "Tapestry", "Violations")" That definitely was never in an episode or film. It's understandable if both Shinzon and Picard Drink tea, they share the same taste buds. But, since when is shaving your head hereditary? What if we acknowledged the noticable miracle grow on his head and leave it like that. How's this? "Picard lost his hair prior to joining Starfleet, but it was restored in time for graduation. In the 2350s, though, it began to recede again." The italicized comment that Boothby was stunned by Picard's hair loss either suggests that Picard did have hair when they met or was aware of Picard's restoration seems like a valid point to make. I think the solution to the hairline issue is to decanonize "Star Trek Nemesis" as not only a lousy movie directed by a man who knew nothing about Star Trek, but also as a narrative filled with plot and character holes. The reason why the photograph of Picard at the Academy shows him as bald is because no one bothered to remember Picard's history. According to Star Trek Nemesis Picard's Auto destruct code is Picard Alpha Alpha 3-0-5 Um.. no, sorry, but you're completely wrong -- there's no speculation involved. Picard's head was obviously shaved in his Academy picture. You could see the stubble. Try reading what I write before you reply. It helps to keep the conversation on track. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 13:50, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC) CRIMINAL Wasn't anything done to him when he murdered his future self in TNG:'Time Squared" Phasers do have stun settings... :As I recall, he killed his future self to save his ship and crew. He has killed several others in defense of his ship before, why should he be so special? Ironically, he would do the same thing again (with his younger, cloned self) in Star Trek Nemesis. --From Andoria with Love 06:45, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC) Age at Graduation I was just watching "Tapestry", and Q said Picard was 21 years old at the time he was on Starbase Earhart shortly after graduation. Since the episode (and "The First Duty") also states Picard to be of the class of '27, that would mean Picard was born in 2306. Is there a canonical resource for the 2305 birth year? I know this year has been long standing because it was listed in the Star Trek Chronology and the like, but even that is conjectural, since it was based on the possibility that Picard first attempted to enter Starfleet Academy at age 17, but he could have just as well have attempted at age 16 and accepted at 17. If 2305 is non a canonical year, then we should change it 2306. --From Andoria with Love 19:55, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) :Picard's birthdate was listed on his personnel file in "Conundrum" -- and it matches with "Tapestry" -- Being born on July 13, 2305 means that his 22nd birthday was in 2327 -- the point at which he was referred to as 21 years of age in 2327 means that "Tapestry" takes place in 2327 before July 13. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk Okay, that's all I needed to know. Thanks! :) --From Andoria with Love 20:16, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) Age when he met Beverly There seems to be a bit of an oddity in the reletive ages of Picard and Beverly when considering there romance. taking Picards birth date of 2305 and Beverly's of 2324. Picard was 49 and Beverly 29 in 2353, when Jack Crusher was killed. While statistically there is nothing wrong with their twenty year age gap, it doesnt feel right. Also considering how young Jack looks only 4 years before he died and accounting for the fact that he and picard were supposed to be very close friends. Its feels a bit wrong that Picard is made out to be a bit of a letchy older man. Lusting after a wife in a young couple. :What exactly are you getting at? I doubt he'd be seen as a "letchy" older man at that time, especially since he kept his love for Beverly secret in order to preserve the friendship he had with Jack. And in this day and age where someone like Demi Moore (43) marries someone like Ashton Kutcher (27), or that old guy (now dead) marrying Anna Nicole Smith, or James Doohan (who died at 85) being married to a woman in her forties, it seems the whole "he's way too old fer her/she's way too old for him" outlook is quickly becoming a thing of the past. That said, I'm not sure what this has to do with the Picard article itself. Are you questioning the facts of the two characters' birthdates? If so, those birth years have been canonically established, making them factual, so there really is no reason to question it. --From Andoria with Love 01:24, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC) I am not making an issue here, but I would like to know exactly how their ages were canonically established. --TOSrules 01:47, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC) :Certainly! Picard's age in the past events seen in "Tapestry", set in 2327, was given as 21, which would suggest a birth year of 2306. However, computer bio screen in the episode "Conundrum" stated he was born on July 13th, 2305, which fits continuity just fine, it just means "Tapestry" was set before July 13th. That same bio screen also gave Dr. Crusher's birth year as 2324, which would make her 40 at the time of TNG's first season (which is the age suggested in the show's writer's guide/"bible"). And there you have it. :) --From Andoria with Love 04:48, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC) :: The Conundrum bios give days of birth? That is wonderful, valuable to my date tracking. I only wish Wesley was included because his age is brought up the most. --TOSrules 08:52, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC) ::What is Riker's day of birth? That would give us the exact day of Future Imperfect --TOSrules 09:55, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC) :::Unfortunately, Riker's bio screen was not seen in the episode (at least, I don't think it was; I think they cut away to the reactions of the amnesiastic crew). However, because the producers used July 13th for Picard's birthday, which is the same birthday for actor Patrick Stewart, we can probably assume they would use August 19th for Will Riker based on Jonathan Frakes' birthday. Again, though, that bit of info hasn't been established. --From Andoria with Love 11:24, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC) ---All we know for Riker is that one birthday fell on (or about) stardate 44286.5. Of course, there's no canon way of converting this to a Julian calendar date, however the guide at http://trekguide.com/Stardates.htm calculates it to be Tuesday, September 6, 2366. Of course, Picard's birthyear is before the 2322 switchover to the "new" stardate system from the movie system, so we can't even really venture a guess. --Lenonn :::It's highly unlikely that there even was a "switchover" between the TOS era and TNG era, as that would cause much confusion for historical record-keeping. However, since "Data's Day" most likely took place in October of 2366 and "Future Imperfect" took place two episodes prior, the September 6th date seems like a pretty good estimate, albeit, as you point out, one that can't be used on Memory Alpha. --From Andoria with Love 03:27, 9 Jan 2006 (UTC) ::::Oddly enough, that birthday for Riker fits very closely with my own Stardate system, though mine isn't capable of getting that specific normally... ::::The idea of the "lechy" old man isn't a "thing of the past", btw. In the eyes of most people, at least. Hollywood is just full of sick, cradle-robbing perverts (you forgot to mention Tom Cruise marrying Katie Holmes, who was in preschool when Top Gun was released). My personal belief in Picard's high moral standing contradicts what that barely-legible birthdate on the monitor screen in "Conundrum" (I just watched that episode the other night and I certainlly didn't make out a date) seems to imply; I find it very difficult to believe that Picard would have such salacious thoughts about a woman young enough to be his daughter--or vice-versa, for that matter. ::::I think we ought to make it clearer in our canon policy what force certain statements that appear onscreen have against others based on their context. For example, spoken statements should carry more weight than things that appear in tiny text on a viewscreen. If a spoken statement contradicts what's on the viewscreen, the statement should be considered to override the text. ::::That being said, I don't see why we shouldn't consider Nemesis to have effectively retconned Picard's birthdate and the time period in which he was at the Academy, making him about 20 years younger and (hopefully) within a decade of Beverly's age. I always assumed that the Stargazer was his first assignment, and that he became captain of that ship when he was relatively young; I don't know of any canonical evidence that there was ever a another ship that Picard served on before the Stargazer. --Antodav 19:39, 2 June 2006 (UTC) :::: Also, if you draw solely from the episode "Tapestry," Picard was an ensign and got stabbed in the heart in 2338 ("thirty years before" "Tapestry"), and was born 21 years before that, in 2317. Of course, the episode also repeats and confirms the statment made in "The First Duty" about Picard graduating in 2327...which would mean that Picard was only 10 years old when he graduated from the Academy. A brilliant man, surely, but not that brilliant. Plus, if he was that brilliant, I have to wonder why it would be another 11 years before he got an actual posting (presumably to the Stargazer)... ::::In other words, folks, the timeline of Picard's life is FRELLED. However, I'd rather believe that he's only 51 in TNG Season 6 and thus the age gap between him and Beverly is only about 10 years. That's far less obscene than the alternative. --Antodav 06:29, 8 June 2006 (UTC) :::::The writers have deemed the 30-year thing as a mistake, as do we. --From Andoria with Love 17:33, 8 June 2006 (UTC) Opening Quote IF we want an opening quote on this page (which is not something I encourage), is this truly one that reflects Picard's personality? Ottens 17:11, 10 Jan 2006 (UTC) :I personally don't think an opening quote is necessary, nor do I believe this is a quote which best describes Picard. --From Andoria with Love 18:05, 10 Jan 2006 (UTC) *I support the current quote and opening quotes in general. Jaf (I can't log in for some reason) ::It might be useful if you provided us with some kind of argumentation in order to possibly convince us of the necessity of keep this quote. Ottens 13:38, 11 Jan 2006 (UTC) :::I also think an opening quote might be problematic, it relies on a "value judgment" on whether the quote does well to introduce or summarize the character's life (which is what the article -- and therefore the quote -- should be about) -- easy enough if the person is describing themselves in the quote, but how about this one? Picard is talking about a holodeck experience with horses, not describing his life this quote is adding artificial allusions about the scope of his "reins" comment -- such as that it has to do with anything besides his horse and saddle. Does this really seems impartial as a choice? In the world of metaphor, its difficult to remain "encyclopedic". -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 14:36, 11 Jan 2006 (UTC) *He was talking to Riker about being in command when he said it. ::::I think a good opening quote for Picard might be what he said to Admiral Haftel in "The Offspring": "There are times, sir, when men of good conscience cannot blindly follow orders." That, I think, summarizes Picard's character better than anything else. --Antodav 19:48, 2 June 2006 (UTC) *I support the existing opening quote. It is marked as Tasha Yar's statement and it expresses her view of Picard. Nothing wrong with that and her opinion seems to me to describe Picard well.--Skon 16:05, 26 October 2006 (UTC) ::::Just a note, the current quote and the quote being discussed at the beginning of this converstation are not the same. Look at the dates, you will note this is an old converstation. --OuroborosCobra talk 16:30, 26 October 2006 (UTC) Why "Was"? Q: Jean-Luc Picard was a celebrated and well-respected ... Why "was"! He's not dead (not yet)! :Memory Alpha's POV is that of the far future, and therefore all articles are in past tense. This includes Captain Picard. --From Andoria with Love 19:13, 21 February 2006 (UTC) ::So then would we refer to post-''Nemesis'' events such as the invention of the Tox Uthat and the Battle of Procyon V in the past tense too? --Antodav 19:50, 2 June 2006 (UTC) Old friends Donald Varley is listed as an Academy friend, I don't remember that and Varley's article don't state it. - Philoust123 20:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC) :The episode script and dialogue stated that Varley and Picard had been friends for many years. Not sure if the Academy was mentioned or not -- Captain M.K.B. 21:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC) ---- career As a junior officer, Picard was the closest of friends with Walker Keel, and also became friends with Jack Crusher and his fiancé Beverly Howard. (TNG: "Conspiracy", "Journey's End") This event is most likely set in the 2340s (at least for the Crushers) rather than the 2320s-30s ("junior officer" ? any reference) where Beverly is about 10-13 years old - Philoust123 15:09, 24 June 2006 (UTC) All that I found about Keel was that he first met Picard in a bar on Tau Ceti III and that he introduced Jack and Beverly. - Philoust123 18:28, 26 June 2006 (UTC) First Officer on the Stargazer? I seem to recall that Riker once stated to Picard something about him being a former first officer. If this is true (I'm thinking from a second or third season episode), then Picard would have been the first officer on the Stargazer in 2333. Does any of this sound familiar or have I been daydreaming?--Tim Thomason 17:01, 5 July 2006 (UTC) You haven't been daydreaming. I think it was during a first season episode. -Scottmz :Is there anything that establishes that Picard was never on another ship? Or that he couldn't be First Officer of something besides a ship? :--Commodore Sixty-Four(talk) 04:14, 23 August 2007 (UTC) Farpoint Was Farpoint the first mission Picard and the Enterprise were involved in? I always thought it was the first mission we SAW, which included the arrival of several members of the crew, but that the starship didn't spend its first 8 months flying in circles while its Captain avoided his brother. :At the very least, All Good Things... establishes it was the first. We seem him arrive on the Enterprise-D for the first time, and precede to the time of the Farpoint mission. --OuroborosCobra talk 15:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC) 27 First Contacts I'd think it would be interesting to try bringing together a list of Picards first contacts and see if we reach the number 27 or even go above it. This could certainly be included as a bg note IMO. Out of memory: :Q :Cytherians :Ferengi :Zalkonians :Tamarians :Borg Kennelly 17:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC) :There was also the Malcorians, Mintakans, and maybe the Satarrans and Lysians. I don't know about those last two, they come from . Also the Edo. Just a few more. ----Willie 17:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC) ::Were the Edo established as a "first contact"? --OuroborosCobra talk 17:33, 8 May 2007 (UTC) :::I'll have to watch the episode again, but IIRC that was the first time humans went to Rubicun III. ----Willie 17:38, 8 May 2007 (UTC) ::Well here is Picard's captain's log from the episode. You be the judge :::Captain's Log, Stardate 41255.6. After delivering a party of Earth colonists to the Strnad solar system we have discovered another class M planet in the adjoining Rubicun star system. We are now in orbit there having determined it to be inhabited as well as unusually lovely. My first officer has taken an away team down to make contact and they are in the process of returning to the ship. Stargazer Captaincy The first paragraph about Picard's service aboard the Stargazer, that mentions how he became captain, is unreferenced. What episode did this come from? Can somebody please add this reference. Thank you. -– Ds093 18:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC).. Shinzon/Academy Picard age I saw that there was a post reversion on a change made to Picards age as "late teens". I'm not in favor necessarily of it saying "late teens", or "early 20's"... but do we have a canon citation for either? Wouldn't perhaps "young adult" be better? Of course an actors age has absolutely nothing to do with his characters age, but keep in mind that Hardy was even 25 when Nemesis was released. Opinions? Citations? References?– Hossrex 05:56, 6 December 2007 (UTC) :We know exactly how old he was at the Academy since we have his birthdate (2305) and his year of graduation (2327). He was stated to be 21 when he graduated, per "Q" in and started a year late because he failed his first entrance exam ((e|Coming of Age}}. With four years of classes, that means he was a new cadet at the age of 17. Interesting, that if he had passed his first test he would have become a cadet at 16. -FleetCaptain 11:29, 6 December 2007 (UTC)